Femi Otitoju: How Agile Leadership Can Get The Most From Your People

Agile and authentic leadership, Henry wrote me, you know, saying, what do you want to talk about?  I would have just been going through some things that required me to really think on my feet and be responsive to people. And I looked back and thought, actually, this has been going on since I started my businesses.

So, my journey to here involves all kinds of different things. I was a carer for London Lesbian and Gay Switchboard and I think over the years, one of the things that shaped my thinking most of all was my experiences working in newspapers. From The Voice where we used to catch black people and The Observer, which I'll tell you a bit more about.

So, it's a little bit about my journey, but here we now have, perceptions about what we're doing.  I'm going to talk to you about agility and flexibility in leadership via four short stories, and I'll punctuate those with an opportunity for you to talk to me and then we'll give you a chance.

So, this is the first of my stories. This is about Richard and the telephone kind of thing. By the way, if you'd ever come to my office, you would know that everything was pink. Everything. Not just the computers, but the kettle, the fridge, the microwave, everything was pink.

We had lots of very different people. People who had checkered backgrounds, like me. Some people who, like me, had worked in call centres and others who were a bit 'phone-phobic', all sorts of things. Everyone was answering the phone in a different way. So I said to Richard, "Richard, can you sort this out?" So he organised a meeting, got all the staff together, and he said we should think about how we're going to answer the phone and speaking inclusively, what do you think?

People said, well, you know, I think it's important that you greet people nicely, that you say something like hello. Someone else said hello is too vague, you need a time sensitive and appropriate greeting like good morning, good afternoon, so we settled on that, time sensitive. Then someone said you should give your name. They said, well, you need to say what the role is or something about like that. And don't forget the name of the company. And it's important to know this thing was getting longer and longer and people were disagreeing about what needed to be cut out and what didn't. So Richard was like, okay, I’m going to decide what's needed.

He went off, he said, I'll be back, [in a] week, to here. So, he came back and said, that I've been back here.  I have made a decision about how we're going to answer the phone, and I don't think we need any more discussion on this, and I don't want anyone to deviate from it. So, this isn't an opportunity for you to come and do your own thing. This is what we agree on. The phone must be answered like this: beautifully. I love Richard. I thought, I mean, I don’t what you think about that. I want to come to you about it, talk to you about it in a minute, but I, I think that that was absolutely brilliant, so that we could all find our way. He said that he chose it because he wanted it to be, in accordance with our values, wanted it to be something of his own.

He wanted it the way we answered the phone to be "representative of the diversity of all of our people".  And I think by just giving us that little maxim, he did that, right?, so if we could just have the next slide, please. I think that, well, actually, let's leave that there. What did you think? Let's just have some thoughts.

What did you think about the way in which Richard dealt with that?  Would you have done it?

Audience Member: Giving autonomy.Yeah, autonomy is a good thing, I think.Audience Member: I just think "What would people interpret that as?" Femi:Yes, I can see some of my staff going, I need video connection, I need to put the bow up.  I can do this. I think you're right. But somehow, I think there was something about trust that meant that people would take it seriously. Anything else about how you felt about it?

 Audience Member: I wondered whether it solved the initial problem of everyone answering the phone in a different way?

Femi: I think it did because it said, this is our goal, we're heading for this thing. So, people who were phone 'phone-phobic', or who just were going hello, they understood that wasn't useful.

Richard was well bold. Richard just came up with this one description. He said, the phone needs to be answered beautifully. And I think that that really did demonstrate a bit of agile ownership. Who else? Somebody else had their hand up.

Audience Member: I wonder if it would create a problem for people who are new and didn't know how to answer the phone and so were looking for some direction. 

Femi: I think, possibly, but I hope that they would then go and talk to other people. I'll go, what's your idea of beautiful? and maybe take to the internet, chuck it into a search engine.

But what we didn't want wouldn't be on it, what we didn't want is to restrict people, we didn't want to lose all the glory of all the beauty of different people that we had created.

So that was my first. I've got four of those, but that was my first one. and if there's anything that you would take away from that, I'd be really interested to hear.

But I think the point is that Richard created that feeling of trying to do something well. He painted this picture of what good would be, and he described what the outcome would be rather than the journey to the outcome.

Okay, let's do the second one. 

Come back in time with me. This is one of my very early jobs. I'm going to tell you a little bit about how I got there and then about the leadership challenge that was faced by Bob at the Observer.  Don't try and read the text, it's just, it's just an image, all right, don't worry about that.  So I was, I think, probably in my very early 20s and I'd got a job as a telly ad girl, that's what they called us, at the Observer.

I wore a headset and I took, calls and I sold space, advertising space, and I was good at it. You believe me, right? I was really good at it. And I was selling stuff seriously, and I was winning all kinds of bonuses. It was fantastic. And then I got called into personnel, and I was told that I was so good that I was going to get promoted from a tele ad girl to a sales rep.All the sales reps were men.  All the girls were tele ad girls. The men went out. I wasn't at all sure, but then she said you get a car. I was like, okay. So HR, then was personnel recruited me. And, on my first morning being a sales rep, I went to meet the head of sales. He was a very important man. I mean, you imagine his sales, it was, so I knocked on the door. And like very important people do, they didn't look up they just say "come".  And he's very important so he didn't stop doing whatever it was he was doing. So, I just waited. And then he looked up finally, and he went, “tell me you're not the new sales rep.”  And I went "sorry?"  And he said, “well, never mind, sit down”.

He told me about my patch, where I was going to be working, gave me the keys to the car and he told me about the commission structure and a few other things. And then I was in effect his assistant. And as I got to the door, he did that Columbo thing.  You know? "One more thing." We haven't had anyone like you, most of the lads, I mean, they're nice, don't get me wrong, he said. We played five a side football on a Saturday and have a drink on Friday, you're welcome to join us for a drink on Friday. He said, but, you know, there's certain kind of life in there. It might give you jip,  because you're a girl, but it can't. But they mean well and if you have too much trouble, you come in and tell me.

So I went to my car, I think, went selling, and I did really well at that too and after a while, I think there was a little bit of resentment amongst the guys that I was selling so well and I was outstripping them a bit. And they did just what he was expecting them to do, they did give me jip.

They made suggestions about how I always managed to sell or I was actually massaging the figures and I didn't quite know how to do it because they were so different from me. And I thought, well, you know, Greenham Common and, you know, demonstrating. It's like that. Anyway, I remembered what Bob had said at the beginning: he said, “there might be jip, and I'm not having that and I want you to tell me”. So, okay.

I said, “they're doing it.” That man got up so fast, his chair, which was on wheels, flew to the back of his room, right? And he headed towards the door. And as he went towards the door, he grabbed me by my shoulder,. just kind of like held me up in front of this and came back into the main room where everybody else was.

He went, "Oi! You lot, leave her alone. All right? She's good at what she does. Not having it." Sort of pushed me. And it stopped. Just like that. Nothing. There were a couple of little bits going, "Ooh, I hope you're alright, I hope you weren't upset." But mostly, it just stopped. What do you think if Bob had said to his mate, “they've sent this girl. Do you think I should say something to her about, you know, what the lads could be like?”  I suspect he probably would have got advice along the lines of, "No, don't put words in your mouth. Don't fix it. Let sleeping dogs lie." I'm sure a lot of people would have said a lot of things like that.  I think they may have been nervous of the idea of him pointing out to me that I am different.I bet some of us would have been a bit nervous about pointing out to the person that they are different. But you see, Bob was authentic. Bob is Bob. He went on.  That's gonna be Charles. And he just told me. And then later, he just told me, and I don't know that anybody would ever have reckoned that he did that.

But he led in a flexible way, because he had that long to think about it, didn't he? I was standing in front of him, he was really out quick off the mark, right on it.

So, let’s pause for a second and just go, any thoughts or reservations about that? I'll take that.  Any reservations about the other ones, anything like that?

Think the point about pointing out someone's difference and how uncomfortable that would make you, but actually it helps someone know that the differences that they're hearing or seeing is really like a big learning, and one that I feel like we all have to overcome with different pieces of our work and systems. Audience Member: I love it. Go Bob. Femi: Yeah, go Bob. Bob saw me. I mean, I would never have had that phrase in that time, but the man looked at me, he saw more and the, the sales training that I got there, I use, I think every day when I'm working. If he hadn't have been able to keep me there, I wouldn't be able to benefit. 

So in summary, that's your point, wasn't it? Acknowledging the differences and communicating his commitment. He wasn't very sophisticated in the way in which he said it. All the sophisticated were people, by the way, worked at the Observer in the journalism side.

But he told me in no uncertain terms, because otherwise, you know, not going to the pub, not playing football, whatever. Other than the test. And I used that on myself, and he provided the support, albeit at the detriment of my jacket. He did actually provide support in that situation.  So that's my second.And that takes me to a bit of space for you, which is just to have a little thinking, a little cluster around your table. I'll read out, in what areas, because I've given you two examples there where people have done things that other people might not have recommended, in what areas should leaders give individuals the freedom to interpret values and decide how to put them into practice themselves?That's the question for you. So maybe you'll come up with a list of things where you could give people freedom to interpret the values themselves.

[pause for the break out space]

Now I'm going to tell you about Tim. Unless anybody has something really inspirational that they just want to shout out right now, including you people on Zoom.

Okay, we'll do a question bit at the end as well if you'd like to. 

Something's just occurred to me that all of my examples are men, because I've got two more and they're men too, and I'll sit with that for myself.

But they're men who've done, you know, they've helped me on my way, so that's a good thing. So now I want to talk to you about Tim, not his real name, who worked at Challenge. So I have done an awful lot of "how to be a good leader training”, right back to Maslow and his hierarchy of needs and Likert.

And I can't remember what he did, but it was good, and I tried to include that in the way in which I managed teams. And so, I'm just going to tell you about what I've learned about feedback and just give you a chance to think about that a bit more. So one of the things I learned is that feedback must be given regularly, that you must appreciate the sorts of things that your staff are doing, communicate specifically, it needs to be targeted, in order to inspire growth.

So when, Tim at Challenge did  a really good job for me on a particular piece of work, I mean, really good, I thought I need to big up Tim, because there's actually another piece of work I wanted him to do. So, I'll give that to Tim. So in the team meeting, I said to the whole team, I really just want to acknowledge the piece of work that Tim has done. He completed that project on schedule, under budget.  exactly. And I think we can all agree, team, can't we, that he involved all of us in the decisions that he was making around that, and we've come up with something that we're all happy with, aren't we? And they all kind of went, yeah, yay, that's it.

I was really pleased with that, I thought that was great.  Tim took it. Okay, so the next one to one with Tim, I've got this bit of work that is really driving me bananas and I'm thinking  Tim can do that, and also I think it'll be good for Tim. So we're in the one to one and I say, "Tim, this project, I think it's a real stretch project, but I think it's a real opportunity for you and I'd like you to bring your magic to that." And Tim said, "no, you're alright," so I said, "actually, to be honest, Tim, I mean, obviously I was thinking of you, but I would also really appreciate your help because I'm a bit snowed under and I'd be really grateful if you could just take a look at it and consider it."

And he went, “all right, I'll do it, if you don't make a fuss."

He said, "yeah, that fuss like with the team."  I said, "Oh, sorry. No, that wasn't meant to be a fuss. That was meant to be acknowledgement of my, my appreciation of the work that you've done. You know, I always think it's important to show that".

And he said, "yeah, right. Well, send me an email." 

Now me, if I do a bit of work and you appreciate it and you just send me an email, I'm going to blow that up to A3 and stick it on the wall behind my desk. I will use it as my Zoom backdrop. I like fame and glory. Right. So there's me, trying to do some of this for Tim, but it's gone straight at me. So I think the thing I have to think about is, how do I find out the best way to give feedback to a person? The best example I've had is actually that something that someone did to me, and I've nicked it and use it all the time.

Now we go quite early on in the leadership relationship, leadership management relationship. They go, how do you want to hear about good news? Do you want to receive feedback about your work? Do you prefer to have things in the moment, or do you prefer to have them in a structured forum? You know, feedback in a structured forum and I think that was about midway through my working life. And I had not been asked that in that direct way. I think most leaders try and get to know people by stealth. They just kind of go, "so you enjoyed that then?" Instead of just going, you know, right from the very beginning.

When I was working for Women's Aid, we didn't have very much money. I said, "how do you want me to show your appreciation?" One of the members of staff said, well, I know you can't put my money up, so just get me a Mars bar every now and again.  And I thought she was kidding, but it really, really worked. So, I took a Mars bar and I put it on the desk very ostentatiously. And the other staff go, how come she's got a Mars bar? Did she get a Mars bar? In fact, no, I want Minstrels.

Everybody started saying what was working for them. But if I hadn't had that feedback, I wouldn't have been able to do it. So, it's about recognising that we need to ask people about what they want as individuals and then be flexible in approach. And there's something about putting yourself to one side, isn't there, about your own, what your own preferences are.

So yeah, that's Tim.

I've got one more, but if anyone's got any points about Tim, anyone got similar experiences or anything like that you want to share, bring it up now and later.

Go ahead. 

Audience Member: Yeah, around the fact that for some staff members who have aspirations of being public managers doing this, should that make sense? Do you want other people to see they're adding to that?Femi: I think it's much easier to big people up when they're not in the room. I would take, take their achievements into other fora so that other people hear about it, but yeah, because otherwise my instinct would be to be sending out emails as well saying, "Wahey, Tim!", and that would get me into all sorts of trouble. But we could do that. Yeah, when they're not in.  Yes.

We now do personal user manuals at work. Yeah, they're just really great at answering people's questions and stuff. Yeah. And people are really open to help as well.

Just to say some of that back just for our Zoom people. So, people have, when you use, a personal user manual that people have been open on using those and it's really helpful to find out what people need.

Right. Thank you. Hopefully you'll carry on those kinds of conversations throughout the day.

Now I'll go into Archie and the pub in Andalusia.

Archie was one of the best members of staff that I'd ever had. He just, he was like a magician. I don't know. He could do everything - he was brilliant at the software, he would install a telephone system, he could charm the clients. Oh, he was brilliant.

So, in one of our one to ones, I had asked him where he saw himself. I thought maybe he could just run the whole thing and I could just go sit inside. I asked where he saw himself in a few year’s time and he said, I want to run a pub  in Spain. No, don't go and run a pub in Spain.  "Oh, well, that sounds fun. How soon are you hoping to do that?" Then he said, "I don't know. You know, it'd be good. It's just that I'd love to do that." So I said, okay, what, what sort of skills and training do you think you need to run a pub? And he says, I don't know, like, okay, finding out all about what you need to run a pub. Next time I meet, I meet him and say, "there's some, some legislation stuff that goes on in Spain that in terms of licensing and things. Of course there's all the account stuff and I don't know what the equivalent of VAT is, but you might want to learn how to do some of that, you know, the accounting or whatever. Would you like to do some like training on accounts?" 

All right, I was outsourcing my accounts at that time, but I got a year and a half of internal accounts done, which reduced the cost.

It also helped Archie think that I was on his side. He diverts his skills in things like marketing. We did that over a couple of years. We do all those separate things. We benefited as a business. He got the skills he needed in order to do his pub, and I've got somewhere to stay in Spain. 

It's not easy, but sometimes I think leadership is about being able to say, I understand that this isn't the place that you're going to stay forever and about trying to be the best thing that you can, you know, do the best thing that you can for your people.

The most important bit, I think, probably was developing the relationship with him that allowed him to tell basically the business owner that he was thinking about being somewhere else, that he didn't have to fabricate “I want to see myself in your position,” “I see myself leading it.” He didn't have to make it up. He was able to go just be absolutely candid and somehow, he believed that I would still be on his side.

 That I think was the important thing. Then, of course, you get the chance to do all the other stuff like development and using their skills and so on. So that's the stuff I would take away from that interaction. 

So here we are, there’s something about keeping staff, leaving staff motivated.

You know, sometimes you have three months, don't you? When someone's working their notice or whatever, and they can do that silent quitting thing as they go. But if they think that you're with them, I think you can mine their potential and all their skills right up until the time that they go.

So, approachability, absolutely. Balancing the needs of the business with whatever it is that your individual needs, as well as knowing who they are and being flexible. Those are the things that I think are absolutely key and it's one on from management because I think what you're doing is, you're showing your people how to be, so it morphs into beyond the day to day management and into leadership.

So yeah, that'll do. 

Let's just take any comments on that before I give you another breakout. I just think that somewhere in a pub in Andalusia, Archie is standing there, having a chat about how greatly valued everybody is.

 Audience Member: I hope somehow, that comes back to you.

Femi: Yeah. I like to think that's the case. Save them as mine, but if not, I'll just settle for the accommodation. I do think it does. I think you're right. I think then if he wants, if he's got a mate who's looking for work, there's a possibility that he will make that recommendation.

Anyone else?

Okay. I hope that I've managed to make my style vibrant, you know, for you. But also maybe just, maybe just consolidate some things that you were thinking anyway.

So my last bit is to give you a little bit of a chance to think about how should we respond when the aspirations of our people don't seem to be in the interests of our organisation.

Okay, let's just take a few minutes. Can I take five? We'll take five minutes for all this waving,  just to see if you've got any questions. I mean, I know there's probably a lot of experience in the room, that's evident. So please, if you want to just share something else, rather than ask me a question, please do that too.

Zooming people, you too. If you want to ask questions, just start yelling or pause. Oh, and put your questions into Slido, which then you will repeat to me if I need to answer it. Thank you. So I will do this thing. I don't know if there's any changes, but I sort of scan the room like this. So when I get to an area that people see like that, so even if you spot it, you're going to say something.

Audience Member: To respond to that question, I think the only thing to do is, all the dreams and ambitions, and, somehow believe in some sort of karma that finds its way and people will help each other. Whether it's the other way around or whatever, it'll come back to you if it must, and if not, it's all right as well, so.

Femi: Yeah, I wasn't going to keep him, was I? Wasn't anything I was going to do? So, yeah, I might as well reap the benefits that I could.

This is an interesting job that you've got. You can't, you probably can't see. The mic is being carried around. Finishing, scanning, man here? Anybody else want to say anything?

Ask a question. Yes. 

Audience Member: Do you think Bob was aware of what he was doing in how important, maybe unintentionally, his actions were for you and for making a point? 

Femi: Do I think he was aware? I think he was aware of what he was doing. I think he did exactly what he intended, which was to go, I want to look after you, you tell me if I need to.

I think he did. I think that he didn't know how brave he was being. I think he didn't recognise the potential pitfalls. I think these days most of us in this room would think twice or three times and then ask four other people before we did what Bob did, in which time that young woman could have been sinking.

So, I would urge you to that authenticity thing. Go with it. And if you doubt, I'll come back to this in a sec, if you doubt the way it will be received is the way in which you mean it. Preface what you say with your meaning, right? So you go, "I'm saying this because I want you to be alright". I don't know what your vernacular is, but that's mine.

"I'm saying this because I want you to be alright". So, and then, all those other things so that she doesn't wander off thinking he hates me. How's that? Got a hand here.

Audience Member: Just on that point on Bob, I think there's something to be said about Bob knowing the culture of that group and therefore responding in the way that he knew they would respond to.

Femi: So, I think he probably did that so confidently because he knew them. He knew that that was the right thing to do with that group. I think when you know your people well enough that you know what to do. 

So there's a lot to be said for watching and understanding your culture, interpreting what's going on in the place that you're working and maybe, it would have been great if he'd had a bit of a warning, then he could have maybe shaped the culture. But because personnel was doing the recruiting, he didn't get a chance to kind of be like those people in curling when they came in the way. He didn't get a chance to do that. But yeah, knowing your culture, absolutely.

Time for, Zoom people, how are you? Has anyone got any questions there? Anything on the Q& A we should be looking at? 

Nothing's come up. Only, someone's saying understanding people's aspirations beyond work is a leadership skill.

Of course it is.  and I think it's a leadership imperative, actually. Anyone else, just anything that you'd like to share, questions?

No? How's that? Okay, I'm two minutes late. I'm in love with that. Thank you very much.